In this episode, we catch up with Hasu about the current challenges of DAO governance and how it can be improved. Hasu is a prolific researcher, and is active in many protocols including MakerDAO, Lido, and Flashbots. We conduct a bird's eye retrospective of DAO governance, and discuss his takeaways as a leading delegate and participant. Specific themes we touch on include Treasury Management (again), MakerDAO's roadmap and structure, the capped stETH supply debate, and many more.